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Thread: Boutique Car Manufacturers should do- opinions?

  1. #11
    Hoover,

    You seem to be using the tried and true business model.
    Seems Porsche & Lotus, and in a similar but different way Ariel, all have a second source of income.

    Porsche and Lotus have their engineering division, Ariel has manufacturing, to augment/support their automotive production. (Ferrari has licensed merchandise. Brillant! Truly brillant)

    When is the HVR going to be ready for daylight? Even if you get just one assembled, get it in the media. (Print, YouTube reviews). Get the word out that you are a manufacture, not just a "repair" shop.

    I remember reading that Carol Shelby was in a handful of different magazines the first month of "Production" of the Cobra. What the magazines, and public, didn't realize was he only had one car! He would paint the car after each review so it looked like a different car in each magazine.

  2. #12
    I don't have as much to offer to this thread as some of you, especially those with knowledge on the history of current car brands, but it sounds like Hoover just touched on the main problem these companies face: funding.

    Today, names like Porsche and Ferrari are well known, but with the well-developed industry of today, I am not sure following their model (Current state model: some high volume sellers for brand identification with some high performance models they're better known for) is the optimal choice. it does seem that the performance brands that have small volumes and high quality have gotten their recognition through brilliant engineering and marketing as wel as some luck to get it right on the first model. For example, track times, car shows, TV shows, video games, magazines, competitive racing, etc.
    Koenigsegg setting the power lap record with their first car on TG had to instantly make it a favorite for many.

    So to me it seems that in today's market it's either a game of chance - getting it right the first time and keeping up with the demand, or the long game - various models, races, marketing paths, etc while using a revenue source not dependent on the auto company's success.
    Last edited by ConSynX; 04-18-16 at 06:40 AM.

  3. #13
    ConSynX

    you, sir or madam, are 100% correct.

    Funding is king. Always has been, probably always will be.
    Engineering is queen. Even with amazing funding, building a lemon is bad for longevity.
    Marketing is prince, and probably air to the throne. (and what Ferrari does very well). Get people (of all ages) excited about your car. Get your car in car shows, TV shows, video games, magazines.

    In the same fiscal year, Porsche release the Cayman GT4 and Lotus release the Evora 400. I saw GT4 reviews/buzz on TV, the Web (Chris Harris on Cars, etc), Magazines, heck. the GT4 had pages of buzz on LotusTalk.com (probably the most visited Lotus Forum in the US). The Evora 400? I am starting to see media about it, but nothing like the GT4. I bet Porsche will sell more GT4's.

    If I were Hoover's Marketing person, I would be busting my back side getting the car on Top Gear US, every review site I could hook on YouTube in the US (think Chris Harris on Cars), Printed Media (SF isnt that far from LA and there are multiple car rags with offices in LA). The very important part of this is to accurately define who is the competition is. Who is Hoover going to take business from (sorry, the car is not revolutionary enough to create a new market/revenue stream). How are they marketing that car, and how can TH be even more visible! (My goal would be for the potential buyer of a GT4, or Arial, or Radical to ask "How does this car compare to the HVR/Noble?")

    HVR has a good history, for a new car, in Noble that they can leverage. Get the car in any/as many "Comparison shootouts as you can" (How cool was it to see the Noble M600 on the TopGear "Lamborghini Aventador vs Mclaren MP4 vs Noble M600). Get teenage kids to want posters! Get middle aged men to believe this is the best tool to get them through that mid-life crises. Get everyone else at the DE event to be curious about how their car did against the HVR's time. Become a regular part of the vocabulary of SCCA/NASA/TimeAttack members.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConSynX View Post
    I don't have as much to offer to this thread as some of you, especially those with knowledge on the history of current car brands, but it sounds like Hoover just touched on the main problem these companies face: funding.

    Today, names like Porsche and Ferrari are well known, but with the well-developed industry of today, I am not sure following their model (Current state model: some high volume sellers for brand identification with some high performance models they're better known for) is the optimal choice. it does seem that the performance brands that have small volumes and high quality have gotten their recognition through brilliant engineering and marketing as wel as some luck to get it right on the first model. For example, track times, car shows, TV shows, video games, magazines, competitive racing, etc.
    Koenigsegg setting the power lap record with their first car on TG had to instantly make it a favorite for many.

    So to me it seems that in today's market it's either a game of chance - getting it right the first time and keeping up with the demand, or the long game - various models, races, marketing paths, etc while using a revenue source not dependent on the auto company's success.
    When Noble Automotive upped their price to 375k for the newest model, it left the current owners to find other vehicles that are "Noblish". Rossion filled the void with about 70+ car sales; that's pretty good. As a small company, they struggle with financials. This left current owners to find support within themselves for years.

    Origin Automotive/TH is not in the 7 figure car market. The HVR is recognized by SCCA beyond most of the hyper car market, and that gives us a place to play should an owner decide to race. That's is a piece of our niche market, since we raced the Noble platform successfully. The companies that are doing well know their products and customer base very well. I've only heard that even Koenigsegg has a silent partner that bought (bailed them out, IMO) to continue development. Again- financial gremlins. Yet, I see some very small car manufacturers actually do well considering.

    As most of you know, we reinvest the companies products into additional services and products that hopefully come to fruition in the near future. Becoming a boutique manufacturer is a huge leap, but the culture of our company believes in designing future products whether it be a hose or a car.
    SCCA National Runoffs GT-1 Bronze Medal
    SCCA GT-1 Divisional Champion

    Noble Automotive USA (TurboHoses Company)

    Noble M12/M400
    Hoover@nobleautomotive.com
    925 -455-1066

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug_porsche View Post
    ConSynX

    you, sir or madam, are 100% correct.

    Funding is king. Always has been, probably always will be.
    Engineering is queen. Even with amazing funding, building a lemon is bad for longevity.
    Marketing is prince, and probably air to the throne. (and what Ferrari does very well). Get people (of all ages) excited about your car. Get your car in car shows, TV shows, video games, magazines.

    In the same fiscal year, Porsche release the Cayman GT4 and Lotus release the Evora 400. I saw GT4 reviews/buzz on TV, the Web (Chris Harris on Cars, etc), Magazines, heck. the GT4 had pages of buzz on LotusTalk.com (probably the most visited Lotus Forum in the US). The Evora 400? I am starting to see media about it, but nothing like the GT4. I bet Porsche will sell more GT4's.

    If I were Hoover's Marketing person, I would be busting my back side getting the car on Top Gear US, every review site I could hook on YouTube in the US (think Chris Harris on Cars), Printed Media (SF isnt that far from LA and there are multiple car rags with offices in LA). The very important part of this is to accurately define who is the competition is. Who is Hoover going to take business from (sorry, the car is not revolutionary enough to create a new market/revenue stream). How are they marketing that car, and how can TH be even more visible! (My goal would be for the potential buyer of a GT4, or Arial, or Radical to ask "How does this car compare to the HVR/Noble?")

    HVR has a good history, for a new car, in Noble that they can leverage. Get the car in any/as many "Comparison shootouts as you can" (How cool was it to see the Noble M600 on the TopGear "Lamborghini Aventador vs Mclaren MP4 vs Noble M600). Get teenage kids to want posters! Get middle aged men to believe this is the best tool to get them through that mid-life crises. Get everyone else at the DE event to be curious about how their car did against the HVR's time. Become a regular part of the vocabulary of SCCA/NASA/TimeAttack members.
    The word funding also lives here, but in a slightly different format. Most of what we know has been sage advice from very successful people/clients that offer advice on how to proceed forward. They volunteer their time and I listen carefully. We've survived through economic crisis (2009) and continue to grow each year into different fields. You can build a car, but can you manage a company? Again, even the Big 5 have the same problems as a small company. Once again, some people buy into their beliefs of a brand, a person etc.... But the bottom line is if you'll be there tomorrow and the year after. I am no financial genius. I don't spend or borrow what I don't have, and if there's a credit car bill or anything outstanding, I pay it. It's that simple, I'm rather conservative by nature. Staying consistent is easier nowadays than before, since our company is very diverse and the Origin Company has brought in unique opportunities that we are funded to develope vs. the other way around.........phewwwwwwww!!!!

    Currently, we have 48 people interested in the HVR street car. Most of them are not the standard build either, which tells me that people like something unique, that's why the Noble is timeless design. The mistake I made was building a race car first, when I could have done most with a street car tooling. I won't make that mistake again. I'm certain that we all know who Origin competes against and that has closed some doors of relationships we've had for many many years. It's business, we get it.

    We do appreciate the vote of confidence and belief in our products. Our goal was simple- what would a Noble be like if developed in the U.S.A.? Our goal is to keep it simple and not try to be Zhonda or Lamborghini etc....... On the race track, the main goal is to be competitive and hopefully "ahead".........
    SCCA National Runoffs GT-1 Bronze Medal
    SCCA GT-1 Divisional Champion

    Noble Automotive USA (TurboHoses Company)

    Noble M12/M400
    Hoover@nobleautomotive.com
    925 -455-1066

  6. #16
    Hoover,

    Being 800+ miles away from TH, I am not as knowledgeable about you as I would like to be.

    Having HVRx homologated in/for the SCCA National Class GT-1/ST class is very impressive!

    can I get a quick rundown of how the HVR series differs from Noble?

    Do you have a unique frame/suspension?

    Are there any HVR's out in the wild yet?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug_porsche View Post
    Hoover,

    Being 800+ miles away from TH, I am not as knowledgeable about you as I would like to be.

    Having HVRx homologated in/for the SCCA National Class GT-1/ST class is very impressive!

    can I get a quick rundown of how the HVR series differs from Noble?

    Do you have a unique frame/suspension?

    Are there any HVR's out in the wild yet?
    Thank you!

    Peter Brock and Allen Grant (One of Carol Shelby's drivers) asked said the same thing- "HOW THE HECK DID YOU DO THAT?!!!!! Carol is the only person I know of that pulled that off!!!"
    It took under two years. It's what separates the Noble/Rossion/HVR from any other manufacturer. You can race these cars and not worry about where and if you can race. IMO, that's a great perk! I'd love and will see the HVR right next to the Noble and Rossion race cars we have here. That's a bit of history in the making!

    The HVR is VERY different than the Noble mechanically. It's pretty much where Lee left off when he turned the motor on the M15. The difference is that we use Chevy drivetrain. The suspension is pushrod in the rear. All suspension points are double sheared and reinforced for safety as well as cage design. The engine is fairly easy to remove as well, since we designed the rear with a removable X-member and transmission plate is part of the mount.

    I'll look through and edit some of the pics. And post them.
    SCCA National Runoffs GT-1 Bronze Medal
    SCCA GT-1 Divisional Champion

    Noble Automotive USA (TurboHoses Company)

    Noble M12/M400
    Hoover@nobleautomotive.com
    925 -455-1066

  8. #18
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    image.jpg

    Rear suspension.
    Notice the construction. Built for racing.
    Heim-joint control arms for adjustability and lightened.
    SCCA National Runoffs GT-1 Bronze Medal
    SCCA GT-1 Divisional Champion

    Noble Automotive USA (TurboHoses Company)

    Noble M12/M400
    Hoover@nobleautomotive.com
    925 -455-1066

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug_porsche View Post
    Hoover,

    Being 800+ miles away from TH, I am not as knowledgeable about you as I would like to be.




    Do you have a unique frame/suspension?
    I'm more of an open book. When things are done, I show everyone. I keep the details of how parts are designed and improved off the internet for the Noble cars. Like any internet world, there's a lot of myth vs. hard earned facts.

    Most know how we operate as a company. I think this is our 16th year, maybe longer and the journey has been the greatest part of my life. Met tons of people and built great relationships!

    800 miles is close! We have customers 3000 miles away and even in S.A.
    SCCA National Runoffs GT-1 Bronze Medal
    SCCA GT-1 Divisional Champion

    Noble Automotive USA (TurboHoses Company)

    Noble M12/M400
    Hoover@nobleautomotive.com
    925 -455-1066

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug_porsche View Post
    Hoover,

    You seem to be using the tried and true business model.
    Seems Porsche & Lotus, and in a similar but different way Ariel, all have a second source of income.

    Porsche and Lotus have their engineering division, Ariel has manufacturing, to augment/support their automotive production. (Ferrari has licensed merchandise. Brillant! Truly brillant)

    When is the HVR going to be ready for daylight? Even if you get just one assembled, get it in the media. (Print, YouTube reviews). Get the word out that you are a manufacture, not just a "repair" shop.

    I remember reading that Carol Shelby was in a handful of different magazines the first month of "Production" of the Cobra. What the magazines, and public, didn't realize was he only had one car! He would paint the car after each review so it looked like a different car in each magazine.

    Porsche- I can not verify, but I heard that each of their Cup cars are sold at a loss; it's merely for advertising. Can anyone verify?

    TH- we have different divisions- R&D, manufacturing, repair, fabrication and Lotus (service, racing parts). We are constantly exploring other avenues and a large portion of our funding comes from privateers that contract us to bring their ideas to fruition. I am constantly amazed of the NDA's that we've signed. I'm just guessing- but it seems as our work has brought us more work in these specialty markets.

    In the smaller realm, few people know of our overall capabilities other than the hose products we manufacture, then the Noble; we're a small company in a niche market trying to do mediumish things in the big car world. We used the Noble M400 as a test mule for years and there's no doubt that what we've learned transferred over to the HVR.

    You are spot on with marketing. In time we will be displaying at the trade shows we attend yearly.
    SCCA National Runoffs GT-1 Bronze Medal
    SCCA GT-1 Divisional Champion

    Noble Automotive USA (TurboHoses Company)

    Noble M12/M400
    Hoover@nobleautomotive.com
    925 -455-1066

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